Re: Re: Question?
By: Bill McGarrity to Charon on Tue Feb 18 2014 15:01:00
> -=> Charon wrote to Obuing <=-
>
>
> > Re: Question?
> > By: Charon to Obuing on Wed Feb 12 2014 03:42 pm
> >
> > > Re: Question?
> > > By: Obuing to All on Tue Feb 11 2014 20:40:27
>
> [snip]
>
> > >
> > How can you accuse me of judging if you aren't making a judgement. Script
> > says to judge rightly. "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. For wi
> > judgement you use, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it wi
> > measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2. This teaches that God does judge, and we
> > should refrain from judgement where possible. However, it doesn't teach t
> > ignore wrong. If someone murdered your family, you would rightly judge th
> > actions to be evil and desire justice.
> >
> > Your post was offensive and was a flame. However, I'll hang in if you wan
> > hash this out. You doctorine of salvation is way off if you think anyone
> > saved by attending organized religion and that is NOT what I said. No one
> > saved from the consequences of their sinful behavior without an intervent
> > Jesus Christ. Only by relationship with him will one avoid judgement beca
> > will be the judge.
> >
> > The Church was designed by God for fellowship between believers and Himse
> > It's not that you can't worship God on your own. You can. But you cannot
> > experience the community of joint believers getting through life (and
> > persecution) without a gathering of like faith. This is church. If you do
> > like one community of believers, then find another one. They are NOT all
> > same. In church you will learn from each other and become much stronger i
> > faith . . . and you might even make some friends.
> >
> Ch> First, my response was not a "flame" and if you have taken it as so,
> Ch> then obviously it has struck a nerve. I am not bashing you, only
> Ch> pointing out that
> Ch> there are people out there that like to judge the actions of others
> Ch> without looking at there own lives. I see it eveyday, and guess what,
> Ch> they do it in the name of Jesus. I disagrree with your comment that
> Ch> "God is the church". God is not the church. The "church" is Jesus
> Ch> Christ. The physical churches, or organized religions, are man's
> Ch> attempt to understand God, in which we fail miserably. Most of the
> Ch> suffering, conflict, etc in our lives is due to our "religious"
> Ch> beliefs. If you do not believe me, then why would responding to your
> Ch> post be so offensive, and a "flame"? Also, religions bring about war.
> Ch> Man kind has fought over beliefs for thousands of years. But, I
> Ch> digress and I do not want to sound negative on this subject.
>
> Ch> On a onther note, I did not "judge" you or any organized religion.
> Ch> However, the post that you officated a funeral for a lady who was an
> Ch> "outspoken Christi an" who did not attend church regularly and then say
> Ch> that you were "amazed how people who claim to love Jesus, but fail to
> Ch> love the people he dies for" sounds a little judgemental on your part.
> Ch> I understand that you are strong in your faith, and that you have your
> Ch> core beliefs, and I applaud you for that. However, faith left
> Ch> untested, is not truly faith at all. I love God, the Father Almighty.
> Ch> I also love his son, Jesus, who came to this earth, lived as a man, and
> Ch> dies for all of us.
>
> Ch> If someone murdered my family, you are correct to say that I would want
> Ch> to seek justice. However, I am supposed to forgive that person, or
> Ch> persons, of their actions and let God handle the rest. This is placing
> Ch> my faith truly in God. Now, on a serious note, it would be hard to do
> Ch> so and I would most likely seek that justice out, which is something
> Ch> that God definately would not want me to do. There is a fine line
> Ch> between justice and vengenance.
>
> Ch> So, I would be more than happy, and open, to discuss my faith, beliefs,
> Ch> etc with you. However, to say that my response was "offensive" or a
> Ch> "flame" is juvenile in thought and only shows that you yourself would
> Ch> like to start a "flame" over this discussion.
>
> Well said. I feel as if the confusion stems with the actual description peo
> derive from the word "church". There is a spiritualistic church, where one c
> feel solice in knowing the relationship between God and themselves is strong
> thus the mirroring effect of Christ's teachings comes from within. There is
> physical chruch where others gather to celebrate their beliefs together. On
> doesn't outshine the other. There are many who feel it is their way or the
> highway.
>
> I've done pretty extensive travels throughout the country seeing the differe
> "sects" of Christianity, some postive, some not so. The Bible is not a chine
> menu as some people feels it is to the point they only choose the verse that
> proves the point they are trying to make at the time. Leviticus seems to be
> the most prevelent for some in choosing to pick certain areas because it is
> "convienent" to prove a point. It rests in two crucial beliefs, the world w
> created "good" and while being vunerable to sin and a faithful enactment of
> ritual making God's presence available. Ignoring it compromises the harmony
> between God and the world. This book was the basis of organized thoughts of
> "church". To me, this was a way of control, where rules brought about were t
> foundation of centralized worship through the guidence of a centralized
> pastorhood. We must also remember material was consistantly added over a 200
> year period, which makes me tend to believe it was the rabbinical "Law du Jo
> for control.
>
> For me, Christ came not to condone these practices but to destroy the very
> foundation. Remember, the years following Christ's death most were illitera
> printed material was extremely limited and thus the staus quo on formation o
> communities where the "Teachings" were discussed and shared. Our abilities h
> expanded well beyond those of 2,000 years ago could have ever imagined. Whe
> Christ told Simon, "Upon you I will build My church", he wasn't looking upon
> Simon as a building but someone who'll spread the Word to all and let them
> decide on how to praise Jesus and his Father in an internal, spiritual desig
> Christ knew "Centers of Worship" become corrupt over time and to this day it
> still true. (Remember that little "romp" through the temple)
>
> I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Spent 12 years of parochial schooling
> and even started my college expereince at a RC university. I am happy to st
> that I can finally experience a Pope that has reversed the status quo of
> mega-chruches, hierarchy and the likes and got back to the basics of guardin
> his flock. He understands he's a man who must guide all, who must understan
> we're all responsible for our decisions, good or bad in each person's life.
> Where man's fears will always guide his decisions. Where those in power can
> will instill their fears upon others for the simple fact, they can.
>
> In conclusion, the teachings are there, the path to those teachings is wider
> than ever. No man or woman has the right to judge another based solely on th
> fears. How one chooses to worship our Lord and Savior is up to the individu
> Live your life in a one on One basis or within a community, the choice is up
> you... but please understand, neither maybe right for the other. We only hav
> one "Judge"... and we'll all be before Him before we know it. Live and let
> live, worship and let worship is my mantra.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
> Bill
>
> Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
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>
>
> ... Motorcycles are everywhere... Look twice, save a life!!
Bill,
Thank you for your input and I could not agree with you more. My previous
posts were not to offend anyone, but to only point out that people should not
judge another person's beliefs or way of life, without considering what path
this person's life has gone down and what they have experienced.
It really makes me upset that one cannot share their beliefs without stioll
being ridiculed. This is happening all over the world, and yes, even in The
United States. I have watch numerous pastors make large sums of money
"selling" salvation to those that are unaware that by simply seeking out
Jesus yourself, salvation is yours for the taking.
Many of the "churches", organized religions, have lost their way and have
placed the value of money over the needs of their parishioners and the
teachings of Christ.
Let's face it, we have no clue who God is, what he is like, or how we will be
judge when we leave this world and stand before Him. We only have scriptures
to tell us about God, which you pray have not been too totally corrupted by
man. We have created numerous "religions" in our failed attempt to
understand our Creator.
Man kind is a "prideful" creation and the previous post, and what is
happening in our world only demonstrates that latter of the point. We are so
"head strong" that "our way" is the right way, that we often do more damage
than we do help.
Many people forget that hristianity, along with several other major
religions, was spread wrongly and with dire consequences. It was either you
"accepted" Christ or be put to death. That was the truth. However, will
this cause me to walk away from, or deny Christianity? No, I am a Christian
and I do not need a "building" or a "person" to save me or tell me how I
should worship God or how I should understand and love Jesus. This actually
goes againts the only two commandments that Jesus gave which were to Love
your God with all of your heart, soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as you
would love yourself.
I am just frustrated that "people" judge others, espcially when serving in a
minsterial role and think just becuause of their "role" that they have a
direct conduit to God.
People need to wake up and realize that Lucifer is in many of these religious
organizations, which are not fully teaching "true" Chrisitanity, and this
will even further his conquest against man kind.
Seek salvation in Christ, not in a man-made structure or a man. People tend
to forget that we humans are sinful in nature, and just becuase we have been
"saved" does not mean that we get the first class ticket to Heaven.
Thank you for listenting to my thoughts and ideas!
Have a Blessed Day everyone!
Respectfully,
Charon
riverstyx.darktech.org
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