Re: Interestingly Enough..
By: Top Gun to All on Fri Oct 05 2007 11:42:00
> But in the days of King David, it was part of Israel. In Jesus' day, it was
> part of the Hasmonean Kingdom that ended with Herod the Great. In 1967, Gaza
> again became part of Israel when Egypt lost it in the Six Day's War.
[digressive sidenote]
Funny you mention the Six Days War. The Israeli government, even today,
denies knowing that the USS Liberty was an American vessel at the time they
were busy sinking it from the air.
check out http://www.ussliberty.org/findings.htm. Compare that with
what navy.mil has to say about "mistaken Identity."
[/digressive sidenote]
> under the title, "Gaza First." Sharon intended to turn Gaza completely over
> Palestinian rule, hoping to accomplish two goals in the process.
>
. . .
>
> Within a year, the residents of Gaza elected Hamas on their foundational
> platform that calls for the destruction of Israel and its replacement with a
> Islamic state.
Well, considering that the Palestinians were replaced with an Islamic state,
it's more a case of turnabout, isn't it?
>
> A year after that, finds the Halavi Report, "The declared policy of Hamas to
> provide sanctuary to any jihad fighter invites additional terrorist groups
> associated with al-Qaida to plant themselves in the Gaza Strip."
>
> Here's the amazing part. I believe that this is exactly what Ariel Sharon
> expected to happen. His only miscalculation was in thinking that, having see
> a preview of what a Palestinian state would look like, the world would come
> its collective senses.
Okay. Here's where your post gets interesting.
>
> Sharon underestimated two things: the almost palpable fear among Western
> governments to do anything that might offend Islam, and the depth of nascent
> global anti-Semitism. The world fears Islam, but it despises Israel on a lev
> so deep that it is defies logical explanation.
Fear of offending Islam? What demonstrates this fear? Swagger towards
Pakistan? Open threats of war against Iran? The atrocities of Abu Ghraib,
Guantànamo Bay, Camp Buucca, and others?
And it's not so much anti-Semitism as it is anti-Israelism. Remeber that
Israel was *given* a country, by force of UN might. And now is being used as
a stepping stone to control in the Middle East.
> Seen at that level, if Islam destroyed Israel and then went back into
> hibernation, it would be a fair trade. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, bu
> for some, especially at the U.N., it's worth the risk. All they have to lose
> is Israel.
Suuuuuure.
>
> It is almost impossible to fathom, but, barring that explanation, how does o
> account for the fact the world is still clamoring for the creation of a
> Palestinian state?
As a way to say "sorry we stole your country. here's some of it back. Our
bad."
>
> In every possible area of measurement, the Palestinians have failed the test
> for statehood.
. . .
> Even blindness can't account for such widespread ignorance of the danger. It
> goes beyond "blindness," skids right past "ignorance," and stops squarely in
> front of "delusional."
Wow. That was a scathing review of Palestinians.
> Why would the world side with an openly terrorist entity û in the midst of a
> war on terror û at the expense of the only reliable Western allied democracy
> in the region, leaving it adrift in a sea of rapacious Islamic dictatorships
>
> Try, for a moment, to substitute some other Western representative democracy
> instead of Israel into this scenario in your imagination.
Oh, I can easily think of a couple that are also arrogant, expansionist
meddlers.
> Israel is an ally to every nation fighting the war on Islamic terror. Those
> same allied nations are advancing a policy of granting statehood to terroris
> sworn to the destruction of that ally ... never mind. The more I try to
> explain it, the crazier it sounds. And that's the point.
Israel is just as much a theocratic entity as Palestine. Israel was given as
a *Jewish* homeland, and flies a Star of David for a national flag. They
are, indeed, fighting *Islam,* and labeling it with the current buzzword of
"terrorist."
> This is exactly the scenario outlined by the Hebrew prophets as signs of the
> soon coming of Israel's Messiah.
And now, finally, comes this thread's relevance to Religion, as opposed to
political debate.
> The prophet Zechariah predicted the whole world would be united against Isra
> over the Jerusalem Question (Zechariah 12:1-3); the prophet Daniel (Daniel
> 9:27) predicted an agreement that seemingly settles the Temple Mount Questio
> and the prophet Ezekiel predicts that, in the end, Israel will still face a
> massive Islamic invasion reluctantly overseen by Russia and led by Persia
> (Iran) (Ezekiel 38:5).
Zechariah 12:2 - "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all
the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah
*and* against Jerusalem.
Daniel 9:27 - "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. In the
middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a
wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation,
until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
Ezekiel 38:5 - "Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and
helmets,"
Okay, so you found three that might relate to this time. The funny thing
about prophecy is that if stay vague enough, *every* prediction will come
true, eventually.
And where is Persia? Where is Cush? Where is Put? I know, you'll tell me
that they've changed names and borders since biblical times, but that
argument is an example of bibliolatrous suspension of logic.
After all, everything in the Bible is the Word of God, right? Well, then, if
God says "Persia, Cush, and Put," then isn't it your *duty* as a follower of
the *truth,* to look out for mah'fahn CUSH? Shouldn't you be preparing to
put Put in it's place?
And Daniel's prophecy, by the way, was written after the fact, around 165
bce, but "prophesized" events that occured around 600 bce.
Ezekial wasn't referring to now. He was referring to Tyre - which still
stands, by the way!
>
> Think about this for a second. Since it is absolutely illogical, and yet it
> also exactly the situation we find ourselves witnessing, do you really belie
> it was all just a really good guess?
No. It was history written in a prophetic voice, to point out moralist
lessons to Hebrews.
Since when are the books of the prophets in the OT anything more than various
*commentaries* on the Torah? Which, by the way, has its own brand of
silliness I'd love to discuss some time.
>
> It would be amazing enough if the prophets had forecast a scenario that made
> sense and it came to pass. But the scenario they predicted defies all natura
> explanation û and yet is coming to pass as literally as it was forecast.
No it's not. Once again, the armies of Cush ore not beseiging Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is safely ensconced in Israel, surrounded by a solid military
structure. Tyre still stands.
>
> The fact is the Bible is true, and the setup for the fulfillment of Bible
> prophecies for the final seven years of Tribulation are almost complete. The
> is only a short time left to choose where you will spend eternity.
The bible is true? Okay, then, let's go buy some slaves! After all, God
himself told us, in his infalliable bible, how to ethically hold, buy, and
use slaves... <Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:43;, Exodus 21:1; Leviticus 25:44;
Colossians 3:22> God loves slavery! Let's look at some of God's other
divine zingers while we're at it..
Have you given all of your wealth away yet? If not, send me an email
"musical.moose.studios@gmail.com" and I'll gladly tell you where to deposit
it. <Matthew 6:19, 6:24, 19:21-24; Luke 14:33, 9:23-25>
Have you ceased striving for personal success yet? Stop trying to better
yourself <Hebrews 13:5, Phillippians 2:3, Acts 2:44-45>
>
> Jesus Christ purchased a pardon on your behalf with His own blood at Calvary
> Cross. He extends it to you now. All you need do is accept it. Allow Jesus
> Christ to come into your life and He will transform it forever.
This is false as well, by biblical standards. Acceptance isn't enough. You
must also cast aside all worldly possesions, desire for self improvement, and
literally follow the Torah. You must be willing to allow slavery, murder,
genocide when God commands it of you, but still not kill (unless ordered to).
Not to mention you must suspend all logic and blindly ignore the many blatant
contradictions of fundemental movements, especially evangelical Christianity
in the west.
>
> The choice is yours.
>
> Relate
>
Yep. And I choose to follow logic and reason. The Judeo-Christian God is
*imaginary.*
Surreality is just an illusion.
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