Re: God
By: echicken to Atari X on Sun Jan 10 2010 04:01 pm
> Re: God
> By: Atari X to echicken on Sun Jan 10 2010 13:56:22
>
> This doesn't clear anything up at all, and in fact completely ignores my
> assertion that simply not proving that something exists does not prove that
> does not exist. You've just repeated yourself. We are now going around in
> circles. This discussion is quickly becoming anything but.
>
> echicken
echicken,
You can manipulate the facts that are presented to you in whatever way that you
choose to. It's still pseudo-intellectual masturbation that serves no purpose.
You have failed to get the one vital point I keep trying to make, but no-one
seems to hear.
The only argument that God exists is one of FAITH. If God stepped down from
the clouds right now, and got on national television, and said, "Hey Guys,
let's be good to each other," then we would have proof - but at the same time,
we would have no need for FAITH. Faith becomes meaningless in the light of
proof.
So, wrap your head around that. Faith denies proof. When you have proof, you
have no more faith.
Proof is verifiable by empirical evidence (observable). In this case, I have
no empirical evidence that God exists. I have no proof.
Conversely, I can make the hypothesis, "God doesn't exist". The next step is
to gather data, and then perform experiments.
I observe (and gather the data) that I cannot see, smell, touch, taste, or hear
God. I also observe than in my surroundings, nothing is being effected in any
way by God (everything in my surroundings is acting in accordance to physical
laws).
So, I have gathered my data, and now I perform an experiment, based on the
thesis that "if God exists, and he's supposed to be all-knowing, and he
answers prayers, then if I make a prayer, he should answer than prayer, and I
can quantify that answer as being performed or enacted by God."
So, my experiment: "Dear God, please strike me dead in the next 10 seconds,
or, failing that, do ANYTHING that will give me a sign of your existence."
(now, sitting here in front of my computer, I perform the experiment, and
nothing happens)
Now, I can say that by the scientific method, I have completed my hypothesis
and can state that by my reckoning God does not exist.
Let's flip that around.
Follow it through in your head, devise whatever method, and tell me at what
point does it fall apart because you have to, at some point, say, "FAITH tells
me this is true."
Which invalidates it as an argument.
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